Recent reading

[troisoiseaux]

Read The Bull from the Sea by Mary Renault, sequel to The King Must Die in her duology about the Greek hero Theseus. It's hard to say which I liked more— the highlights, for me, were the Cretan bull-leaping arc in the first book (e.g., the Theseus and the Minotaur retelling) and the Theseus-and-Hippolyta arc in this one. Despite the questionable beginning of Theseus immediately going THE GODS MADE US FOR EACH OTHER, I MUST HAVE HER and then dueling with Hippolyta for his life vs. her freedom, they actually have one of the most well-adjusted relationships I've encountered in a Renault novel! This book also included the Theseus-and-Phaedra-and-Hippolytus story, which was interesting to compare to Jennifer Saint's recent retelling; I imagine there is a way to interpret that particular myth that doesn't involve demonizing either Theseus or Phaedra, but neither Renault nor Saint seem to have found it. (Saint's take is that Theseus Is The Worst; Renault's is that Phaedra Is The Worst, in a way that, next to Hippolyta, smacks of the inverse of Not Like Other Girls, but admittedly Theseus doesn't come out of it looking great, either.)

Read The Battle of the Labyrinth by Rick Riordan, book #4 of the Percy Jackson series— I'd picked it up because it was the one available on Libby, rather than for the Theseus-myth-adjacent title, but although it focuses on the Daedalus aspects of the myth, Theseus does have a brief, ghostly cameo. (Actually, this book is probably why I'd always assumed Theseus died young, and was surprised to find otherwise, in Renault's retelling: Riordan's ghostly Theseus is just a teenager.) Re-reading this for the first time since middle school, I was very amused to realize that Nico di Angelo was the original moody gay* (pre)teen** necromancer*** of my heart; I am apparently nothing if not consistent. I also got a laugh out of a joke about Blue Ribbon schools and standardized testing that I'm sure went over my head as a kid, when Percy and the gang encounter a sphynx that had updated her whole "answer a riddle to pass" deal to a 20-question pop quiz (via scantron, of course!)

* according to one of the later spin-off series, which I haven't read but was utterly delighted to hear about a few years back
** I think he's 11 or 12 in this book, although technically, he's been 11 since the 1940s
*** son of Hades

Comments

[sovay]

Renault's is that Phaedra Is The Worst, in a way that, next to Hippolyta, smacks of the inverse of Not Like Other Girls, but admittedly Theseus doesn't come out of it looking great, either.

Renault's handling of the relationship of Hippolyta and Theseus is very neat to me, including as a rare successful instance of a het relationship feeling queer in the ways in which it runs counter to the normative concepts of sex and gender of its culture; it's the best thing in the book for me, which otherwise I do not like very much, based heavily on Renault's handling of Hippolytos and Phaedra.

Jules Dassin's Phaedra (1962), oddly, even as a very free retelling, does a good job of not demonizing anyone; plus by complaining about Pauline Kael's take on it, I got this poem.

[edit] . . . I see I already recommended you both the film and the poem in your linked post; I'm very sorry about that.

[troisoiseaux]

a rare successful instance of a het relationship feeling queer in the ways in which it runs counter to the normative concepts of sex and gender of its culture

YEAH. Having read these two, now, vs. three three of Renault's contemporary novels, I sort of get the sense that she felt— freer?— writing in an ancient Greek setting than in her own time...? (More interested? More comfortable?)

I see I already recommended you both the film and the poem in your linked post; I'm very sorry about that.

Never apologize for recommending things! But also, that reminds me— I'd been meaning to mention that I encountered "Ariadne in Queens" in the wild (aka, on Tumblr) a while back.

[sovay]

Having read these two, now, vs. three three of Renault's contemporary novels, I sort of get the sense that she felt— freer?— writing in an ancient Greek setting than in her own time...? (More interested? More comfortable?)

I think so. You can still see some of the bleed-over. But her classical novels in general work much better than her contemporary ones and occasion less screaming over the relationships.

But also, that reminds me— I'd been meaning to mention that I encountered "Ariadne in Queens" in the wild (aka, on Tumblr) a while back.

Oh, neat! Thank you for letting me know.

[troisoiseaux]

But her classical novels in general work much better than her contemporary ones and occasion less screaming over the relationships.

I'd like to check out more of her classical novels; is/are there any one(s) you particularly recommend?

[sovay]

I'd like to check out more of her classical novels; is/are there any one(s) you particularly recommend?

My hands-down favorite is The Mask of Apollo (1966).

[troisoiseaux]

That one had caught my eye! I'll definitely put it on my list.

[kore]

Mask of Apollo is also my faovourite, and Persian Boy is great too, altho that one needs all the trigger warnings for noncon and the narrator being made a eunuch. But it's beautiflly written.

[ethelmay]

The first one I read was The Last of the Wine, and that still feels like the central Renault novel to me. Well, I haven't reread it in years, but it did the last time I read it. I have never quite come to grips with The Mask of Apollo.

[thistleingrey]

Nico is why my local middle-schooler has me reading the Percy Jackson books. Also Annabeth, and Piper, and a few others; but chiefly Nico. heh.

[troisoiseaux]

Percy Jackson really is far and away the winner of the Middle School Circa 2000s Literary Nostalgia Sweepstakes. I'm glad to hear it's still popular!

(Piper is from the second series, right? I think I only read the first book of that one; I aged out of the target audience around the time that series was coming out.)

[thistleingrey]

(Yes, second series, I think!)

[ioplokon]

Oh, I've been meaning to read Renault for ages. The first half sounds good at least? I think modern retellings struggle with Phaedra because 'Aphrodite did it because she's Inescapable' isn't really compatible with how we see the world.

The weirder one is how people seem not to get that Hyppolytus, like his mother, is kind of a queer figure. In Euripides, at any rate, his 'purity' is communicated by the same kind of imagery used to portray maidenhood... And I think young men who are uninterested in sex are still considered similarly odd/feminine/doing gender wrong, so you'd think it'd be easier to get... But maybe that's why it's harder. (Though this maybe feeds into the issue with Phaedra? If people don't get how Hyppolytus's society views him as being in need of punishment/correction, the whole Aphrodite-Phaedra plot from Euripides falls apart)

[troisoiseaux]

I think modern retellings struggle with Phaedra because 'Aphrodite did it because she's Inescapable' isn't really compatible with how we see the world.

Weirdly, I don't think Aphrodite came up in either of the two retellings I've read. That makes a lot more sense as a myth, though!

I definitely did get "Hippolytus as a queer figure" vibes from the Renault, especially in terms of how Theseus just Does Not Get his son's whole chastity deal.

[kore]

they actually have one of the most well-adjusted relationships I've encountered in a Renault novel!

//facepalm

Good for them!

[troisoiseaux]

No one threatens suicide even once!

[lunabee34]

I love the Percy Jackson books so much. They're so clever and so fun.

[troisoiseaux]

They really are! I've just started the second series, and I'm really enjoying it.

[lunabee34]

My favorite series is The Heroes of Olympus. Love, love those characters (and the Percy Jackson characters are in it, too). Also the Trials of Apollo series.

Okay, I think I just like all of the books in that extended world. LOL

[chestnut_pod]

I think Nico di Angelo was the original moody gay teen necromancer of many hearts! And what would each of us do without one?

[troisoiseaux]

The more surprising part is that this is a character type I've encountered three different times.