troisoiseaux | Recent reading

Read Jo's Boys by Louisa May Alcott, and enjoyed it more than Little Men, if only out of a sense of novelty. I hadn't read it before, and it definitely cranks up the drama compared to the earlier March family books, featuring shipwrecks and prison riots and collapsing mines alongside its more expectedly domestic storylines— Jo's niece wants to be an actress! Young love is in the air! A few of the Plumfield boys went to Harvard and have become total jerks!

I have to admit, I found it more interesting as a historical artifact than a story, if that makes sense? Especially after learning more about Alcott as a person and a writer through Anne Boyd Rioux's Meg, Jo, Beth, Amy, I was interested to see how much of it felt like a response to Little Women— there's an amusing chapter about Jo, now the famous author of a book that is clearly Little Women, dealing with her adoring and very persistent public. There were also a few storylines that felt like Alcott taking paths she'd been pressured away from in Little Women: namely, her decision to allow Little Men's tomboyish Nan to reject the persistent suit of her childhood friend AND end up as a "busy, cheerful, independent spinster" rather than marry someone else, as well as Jo's namesake niece's passion for theater— a trait of Alcott's sister Anna that she toned down in Meg / swapped for the more respectable goals of marriage and motherhood. (Josie Brooke was a delight and the highlight of this book, imo.)

It was also an intriguing snapshot of its moment in time— the book's discussion of women's rights felt like looking at the middle picture on an Animorphs cover, because it had young female students asserting their right to education and pursue careers (Nan was in med school!) while, for example, taking as unquestioned fact that women's brains are smaller than men's. Interestingly, from a conversation about women's suffrage and some quick follow-up googling, it appears that women in Massachusetts could vote in local elections as of 1879— and our Louisa was the first woman to register to vote in Concord!

I'm not sure how much Laurence College reflected an ideal rather than a kind of institution that actually existed circa 1886, being co-ed and integrated - it's mentioned in passing that it accepted students of "all sexes, colors, creeds, and ranks," including "the freedman and woman from the South" - but that was cool. Sympathetic, although not exactly respectful, references to Native Americans, as one of Jo's boys' career plans is to help a tribe that's being screwed over by the U.S. government. Had a bit of a mental record scratch over just how completely everyone - the narrative, Jo, Dan himself - dismissed Dan's love for Bess Laurence as not having a snowball's chance in hell at being a conceivable match, let alone reciprocated, given their difference in social status— if this had been historical fiction written now, it's inconceivable that a wealthy, sheltered, aspiring artist could nurse a rugged, wounded outdoorsman - a convict who redeemed himself through a heroic act, no less! - back to health and the two of them not end up together.

Lots of allusions to Dickens, as well as a conversation about the respective merits of George Eliot and "little Charlotte Bronte," which I was tickled by.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

osprey_archer

There are some nineteenth century novels I read for pleasure, and some where the pleasure arises from the book as historical artifact - the story may not be strike me as "entertaining" per se, but the things that it tells me about the historical time period definitely do!

My own college (called Lawrence!) was founded coeducational in 1847, and I know that Oberlin was founded coeducational and integrated around the same time - so Laurence College would have been a real possibility in 1887.

Isn't part of the problem with Dan/Bess that Dan killed a man (who totally had it coming! but nonetheless!) and is thus Forever Tainted? I remember feeling it was strange that everyone believed so adamantly that Bess could never love him. I could understand why they would think the match could not or should not come off, but how can they all be SO SURE Bess will never love him back? And the narrative bears this belief out, too.

This is the book that ends with Alcott storming "I wish I could end this book with an earthquake swallowing Plumfield and killing them ALL so no one could ever bother me about the March family EVER AGAIN," right? Just the sheer ballsiness of flinging that in the face of her most devoted readers. I am in awe.

From:

troisoiseaux

Isn't part of the problem with Dan/Bess that Dan killed a man (who totally had it coming! but nonetheless!) and is thus Forever Tainted?

Yes, but I'm pretty sure Amy didn't know about that part, and when Jo hinted that maybe Dan was getting a crush on Bess and they should go on a vacation for a bit she was like "yep, good plan," so I think it was at least partially class/status-based...? It was less the March clan's reaction that flabbergasted me than the narrative's— it didn't even blink, and as I said, it was such a different attitude to what you'd get from a modern historical romance. (If anything, the fact he killed a guy and feels super bad about it would probably be a point in his favor— she can Fix Him!)

This is the book that ends with Alcott storming "I wish I could end this book with an earthquake swallowing Plumfield and killing them ALL so no one could ever bother me about the March family EVER AGAIN," right?

IT IS. I laughed out loud at that. And after making it very clear what she thought of her adoring fans, too! (That chapter was probably my favorite— it turns out that people have always been super entitled in their interactions with famous authors, but instead of tweeting at them, they'd send letters to or show up at their actual house?? Incredible.)

From:

kore

I always figured that was one reason by Charlotte Bronte kept returning to Haworth, she could be reasonably sure people would just leave her the fuck alone there, and she exaggerated how dreary and isolated it was. I wonder what she would think of the heavily visited tourist mecca it is now!

From:

osprey_archer

Given that the guy he murdered really DID have it coming, modern!historical!romance!Dan probably doesn't even need all that much fixing! REALLY what he needs to learn is that he is not Forever Tainted, but in fact still worthy of love! Okay, and also maybe in the future do not murder people.

I don't remember the book super well, but I DO remember the part where one of Jo's fans flings herself at Jo crying "Darling, love me!" OH MY GOD.

From:

kore

INDEED

It is a strong temptation to the weary historian to close the present tale with an earthquake which should engulf Plumfield and its environs so deeply in the bowels of the earth that no youthful Schliemann could ever find a vestige of it. But as that somewhat melodramatic conclusion might shock my gentle readers, I will refrain, and forestall the usual question, 'How did they end?' by briefly stating that all the marriages turned out well. The boys prospered in their various callings; so did the girls, for Bess and Josie won honours in their artistic careers, and in the course of time found worthy mates. Nan remained a busy, cheerful, independent spinster, and dedicated her life to her suffering sisters and their children, in which true woman's work she found abiding happiness. Dan never married, but lived, bravely and usefully, among his chosen people till he was shot defending them, and at last lay quietly asleep in the green wilderness he loved so well, with a lock of golden hair upon his breast, and a smile on his face which seemed to say that Aslauga's Knight had fought his last fight and was at peace. Stuffy became an alderman, and died suddenly of apoplexy after a public dinner. Dolly was a society man of mark till he lost his money, when he found congenial employment in a fashionable tailoring establishment. Demi became a partner, and lived to see his name above the door, and Rob was a professor at Laurence College; but Teddy eclipsed them all by becoming an eloquent and famous clergyman, to the great delight of his astonished mother. And now, having endeavoured to suit everyone by many weddings, few deaths, and as much prosperity as the eternal fitness of things will permit, let the music stop, the lights die out, and the curtain fall for ever on the March family.

Magnificently pissy. She is DONE. (PS: She was not done with writing about young folks.)

From:

troisoiseaux

Stuffy became an alderman, and died suddenly of apoplexy after a public dinner.

That reminds me! The fairly relentless fat-shaming in Little Men and Jo's Boys was just... incredibly obnoxious.

From:

kore

It REALLY is. I don't think it happens so much in LW? Everyone seems so underweight most of the time. I think Laurie puts on some weight when he's indolent in Europe, tho. I still remember surprise at reading "getting stout" or "getting fat" as positive in some 19th century books. But not for kids!

From:

troisoiseaux

I think Meg is described (positively!) as plump, but yeah?? Wild. I don't even think it was just a "not for kids" issue, because it came up in this one as well as Little Men— probably more so.

From:

kore

I think Amy is described as being plump or filled-out, too, like it's a good thing.

If the work ethic and self-sacrifice came from Abba, Louisa's ideas about education are ALLLL Bronson and wow do a lot of them suck. (I just loathe him. Oh dear.)

From:

troisoiseaux

Louisa's ideas about education are ALLLL Bronson and wow do a lot of them suck

To be fair, nearly starving to death as a child because your father sucks at running his 19th century hippie commune might cause one to have skewed feelings about weight and eating later in life.

Edited Date: 2021-12-08 08:29 pm (UTC)

From:

osprey_archer

But at least she escaped writing any more about the March family, by God!

From:

rachelmanija

I think it's mostly about class. He was considered an impossible match before he killed a man, IIRC; the killing emphasized why he was impossible, ie, he's the sort of rough man to whom such things happen, not the reason by itself.

But the fixit fic I really want is Dan/Nat.

From:

troisoiseaux

But the fixit fic I really want is Dan/Nat.

Yes!!

From:

osprey_archer

Is Nat the one who has to whip Professor Bhaer, and finds having to swat his teacher a MUCH worse punishment than being swatted himself? Dan's opposite: too tenderhearted, where Dan is too rough? I bet there's a market for this in historical romance.

From:

troisoiseaux

Yes! There's also a whole side plot in Little Men where Nat is accused of stealing and is ostracized by the other boys, until Dan sells his most beloved possession to pay back the money that Nat is accused of stealing, implies that he was the one who stole it, and therefore takes the burden of the public shaming onto himself, until it's revealed that neither of them were the thieves. I think the narrative actually refers to them as "Damon and Pythias."

From:

osprey_archer

That's possibly the most nineteenth century subplot I've ever seen! Although "our hero FALSELY ACCUSED" is definitely a big thing in early to mid-twentieth century boarding school books too.

You know, books really prepared me for people to be falsely accused of thievery ALL THE TIME, and in fact I have never been even adjacent to this subplot in real life. Truly, literature can be misleading.

From:

troisoiseaux

It was genuinely more stressful to read than the "Dan is imprisoned for murder and the other inmates try to rope him into planning a prison riot" chapter of Jo's Boys, because middle schoolers are the worst. (Poor Dan. It feels like he wandered into an Alcott children's novel out of a different genre entirely and she didn't know what to do with him.)

From:

rachelmanija

I think so. He's the sweet woobie who plays the violin. He gets wrongly accused of stealing and Dan makes a false confession to protect him.

From:

conuly

one of Jo's boys' career plans is to help a tribe that's being screwed over by the U.S. government

Good luck with that.

From:

troisoiseaux

Yeah, that... doesn't end great for him, but at least he tried..?

From:

oursin

The actress whom Josie fangirls and who gives her Sage Advice? based on the rl Charlotte Cushman, who was part of the sapphic circle of expatriate artistic ladies in Rome as well as famed for her breeches roles.

From:

troisoiseaux

Amazing!!!!! I love this for her.

From:

kore

NICE

From:

kore

Josie and Nan are SO GREAT. I couldn't really stand Bess, though, she's like this very strange mix of Amy (the beauty) and Beth (everyone protecting her to death like a hothouse flower). I think I kind of just took the very meta "I am writing about my characters and also writing about my publishing experience" as a weird given when I first read these books (pretty young -- six or so?). I knew Louisa Alcott was a famous writer, so it made sense she'd write about being famous or something! lol.

I think Laurence College is still more an idealized version of Bronson's (ugh) educational ideas than anything else, but it does sound closer to more liberal colleges of the period.

I honestly get the books after LW kind of mixed up, I reread them so often and continuously as a kid. They just all collapse into one big Alcottverse.

The bit about Nat not being Good Enough for Daisy also kind of gave me the heebie-jeebies, since I was raised by boho artistic types and part of the fun of being a musician is the parties! Jeez. Alcott is often so forward-thinking in some aspects it's always kind of a shock to run up against her granite NE work ethic, or idolization of self-sacrifice.

From:

troisoiseaux

I didn't mind Bess, but I couldn't stand Daisy. (My opinions of Demi and Daisy flip-flopped between Little Men and Jo's Boys; Demi was just so annoying in Little Men.) And yeah, I'm glad that I read Jo's Boys for the first time as an adult rather than as a kid— a lot of the more interesting elements would have gone straight over my head.

Alcott is often so forward-thinking in some aspects it's always kind of a shock to run up against her granite NE work ethic, or idolization of self-sacrifice.

It is! That's kind of what I was getting at with it feeling like freeze-frame of a midpoint in the cultural shift towards women's rights— reading it 140+ years later, her progressive takes are like, yeah, duh, so her now-outdated-but-mainstream-at-the-time takes are all the more gobsmacking in comparison.

From:

kore

Oh man I can't stand Daisy in Little Men with the lisping and the teentsy little kitchen and oh my God. I don't think I was ever a big fan of the twins from the moment they appeared. Daisy was at least more bearable in Jo's Boys, tho, heh.

It's a really interesting reminder that progress doesn't happen all at once and all in the same directions -- that people who had radical ideas in one area were often of their time or even reactionary sometimes in another. In Louisa's case, altho she was a total daddy's girl, I like to think we can REALLY see the effect of her mother's training. (Abba is like the hidden molten core of so much of LW, even tho Mrs March is a rather watered-down version of her. And Louisa took her role right up -- working herself nearly to death so her family wouldn't starve in the streets.)

From:

troisoiseaux

That's fair, but at least Little Men-era Daisy didn't evangelize like Demi did.

Have you read Anne Boyd Rioux's Meg, Jo, Beth, Amy: the Story of Little Women and Why It Still Matters? This was what got me on my current Alcott kick— you'll probably know all the biographical stuff already, but I found it really interesting to learn about the context of her family, etc., that I didn't know before. As I texted to a friend while reading it, Laura Ingalls Wilder and Louisa May Alcott are *clasped hands meme* about idealizing their fathers in their fictionalizations of their childhood experiences. (It's rather bleakly funny that Bronson Alcott was just so much that to do so, Alcott basically wrote him out of Little Women altogether...)

From:

kore

I don't think so! I have the Little Women ed with her intro, and just finished March Sisters and I have the Other Alcott around here somewhere, and other books like Little Women Letters (not good) and a jumble of stuff like that. But not this! -- ooh it's like nine bucks on Kindle. That's almost less than a latte and a cookie.

From:

kore

(Also I am FOREVER salty that Geraldine Brooks wrote him back in, in March, and won the PULITZER because omfg a Real Novelist writing about a Real Male Historical Figure was obviously so much more serious and prize-worthy! Salty like that "nothing but salt" gif.)

From:

osprey_archer

I've bitten the bullet and checked out the Rioux book. Will report back in a Wednesday Reading Meme or two!

Laura's father wasn't too good at making a living, but he was clearly very good at making his children feel seen and loved. Bronson Alcott, OTOH, was so awful at everything that Louisa had to write him out of the book (IIRC, even in part 2 when he's technically at home, we don't see very much of him?) and concentrated her Idealizing Powers on Marmee.

From:

oracne

I read this when I was in...middle school, maybe? Early high school? I remember mostly Nan.

Dan gets sort of exoticized, doesn't he?.

From:

troisoiseaux

I read a lot of Alcott circa 4th-5th grade, including Little Women and Little Men, but never got around to reading this one! I'm glad I didn't; it was more interesting to read with more historical context/knowledge about Louisa May Alcott as a person.

Dan gets sort of exoticized, doesn't he?

Yeah, that's a good way to put it— there's a passing implication that he might have Native American ancestry, but overall, it's less that than it is an an overall ~ooh Wild West~ thing...? There's one scene, where he returns to Plumfield bearing culturally appropriative gifts, that was a bit wince-inducing to read in a 21st century cultural context, and the overall references to (...but never actually any depictions of...) Native Americans are sympathetic but not respectful, so that was all a bit :/

From:

kore

I think there's maybe also the influence of a bad bloodline? I don't remember tho -- but the 19th century novelists can be very weird about supposed inherited behaviour and influence.

From:

oracne

You DEFINITELY got way more out of it! I only read it because it was in a pile of old books we got from my grandmother.

From:

copperfyre

I’ve never read any of the sequels to Little Women, so it’s really interesting to read your thoughts on them. It’s definitively interesting to think about which novels are more interesting as historical windows than as books in and of themselves.